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interesting things coming out when they

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start

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talking to like actual actual

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experiencers

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you know yeah well john mack was a

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psychologist

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dr john mack that you know did multiple

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research on experiencers

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and he talked about one was like

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evidence one of them said that the

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experiencers uh they gave them a want

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and then one never appeared because they

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wanted to see it but john mack never saw

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the wand and now i want to see the wand

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when i heard that

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because that was like the evidence this

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experiencer had but

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the interesting thing at the end of you

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know working with all these people

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his patients john mack you know really

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did believe

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in what happened you know he really was

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a believer in the experiencer

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and he was a psychologist he was

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ridiculed for a very long time about it

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too

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and to this day people you know they

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would they laughed at him in psychology

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and didn't take him seriously and now

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it's changing a little bit

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so i think we are going to learn more in

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science you know john mack was probably

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pointing to certain things that

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were shedding light on way before the

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time and

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i think i think we'll be around to know

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and i think experiencers will have a

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different say and their time will come

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and

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you know you do have to give space even

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though for them it's real

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and i think that's the most important

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thing is this is massive trauma

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and so it's not always mental health

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going into it sometimes it is because

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you know mental health does play a part

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in that um but even if one experience

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has happened it's

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it makes it real right so you know john

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mack said that the experience

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for these people were not so much um

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the mental health was not before the

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mental health came after the

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trauma of the experience and then the

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health showed up because of the trauma

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and i felt that was really interesting

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and so you have to give space to these

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people if it's mental health or not

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i think you have to give space to

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experiencers you need to listen to their

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stories we need to document them

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you know have a place for them to talk

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about it because we don't really know

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what's going on

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and give them a space that's safe and

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then also

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look at it with scientists and different

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people in in different perspectives

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so i think we're going towards that and

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i think the best part right now like

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with robert bigelow's doing and

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a lot of different people that are

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working in the ufo community

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and with mainstream media now is giving

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the ability that scientists are actually

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going to be able to come

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in and look at ufology and experiences

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and all these different phenomenons